Save the Deli

Richman ain’t pleased with Katz’s

As the biggest, oldest, and best known deli in New York, America, and the world, Katz’s deli is more than simply a restaurant. It is a status symbol, a legend, an enigma.

It is the deli by which many others judge themselves. I can’t tell you the number of times deli owners says “we’re just as good as Katz’s” or “we’re trying to capture the spirit of Katz’s”. It’s so big, so bright, and so overwhelming to all five senses, that it’s impossible to match.

But does it hold up? Yes, the pastrami is universally acknowledged as excellent, as are the hot dogs, but what about the other stuff on the menu.

GQ food writer, and deli aficionado Alan Richman set out to test this, initially as a tribute to the great deli. The result: To say Richman was less than impressed is an understatement. He was positively outraged. Here’s a look at Richman’s takedown.

Not Good for the Jews (or the Tourists) (from his Forked Blog on GQ.com)

The setup:

…I always ordered the same three items: the grilled knoblewurst, which is a garlicky beef sausage that seems to spend a lifetime on the grill, so tough and hard (and delicious) is the casing. Then, depending on the size of my appetite, next would come either a modest grilled hot dog (natural casing, of course) or a dreadnaught sandwich of hot pastrami (massive, blackened, meltingly soft, and mildly peppery). Everything was just right…

The opening shot:

…I went there four times and got almost a third of the way through my mission before I quit in dismay. I want to give myself credit. I’m not sure another man alive has tried so many of Katz’s offerings, 19 in all. Actually, I’m not sure any man alive has ever eaten so much terrible food. I find it hard to believe the owners have ever eaten what I’ve eaten, or they surely wouldn’t keep serving it. Much of what Katz’s prepares is the worst food for the money in New York. (At $3.10 for a hot dog and $4.50 for cole slaw, it isn’t cheap.)…

The uppercut:

…The stuffed derma, a kind of Jewish culinary oddity that looks like a sausage but is mostly minced vegetables and seasonings, was microwaved and inedible. An Italian woman with me said, “That’s pansy-ass derma. Our Jewish lawyer, Mr. Klein, always took us to the best kosher restaurants, where the derma was moist and fatty and the skin nice and crisp.”…

The knockout:

…I haven’t mentioned one of the sandwiches until now, because it comes with a request for forgiveness. My mother and my sister used to share a corned beef sandwich whenever my father and I coerced them into eating at Katz’s. The corned beef I had in my sandwich was tough, rubbery, salty, and understeamed. I tried again, this time buying some as takeout, and paying an astounding $23.75 a pound. The texture was more pleasant, but the only discernable flavor continued to be salt. Spoiled Jewish sons don’t often do this, but I owe my mother and sister an apology for all those meals at Katz’s we put them through….

If you are waiting for me to rip Richman a new orifice to ingest pastrami through, you’re not going to find it here. He is one of the most adept food critics out there, and the man knows deli very very well. He’s from Philly, lived in Montreal, and has been in New York for years. If you read his entry, you’ll see that no one was more disappointed in the food at Katz’s than he was, because he wants to love the place so dearly. But I will say this: I was there for one of Richman’s tastings, and while I’m not nearly as harsh as he is, I’m also not the adept critic he is. I try not to speak ill of delis, because it does no one any good, but I am certainly not disagreeing with Richman’s assessments of the food he mentions. Not every deli does everything perfectly, and Katz’s is no exception. They are known for pastrami, salami, and hot dogs, and by god that stuff remains great (and Richman acknowledges that). The rest of the stuff? Well, I’ll put it this way, when people ask me where to get a great matzo ball soup or knish, I generally steer them to other places in New York. If they want pastrami, hell…if I want pastrami, then I always end up at Katz’s and always leave happy.

As Richman mentions in the piece:

I have one friend, somewhat of a Katz’s insider, who claimed I was being unfair, because the only food that anybody goes there for is the pastrami. He told me this after I came to the table bearing a chopped liver sandwich—an enormous mound of smooth, bland liver served ungarnished between two slices of bland rye bread, the culinary definition of monotony. Disgusted—at me, not at the restaurant—he said, “We’re the only schmucks in here not eating pastrami.”

That “friend”, who happens to devote a lot of time Saving the Delis (hint!), stands by those words. So many delis try to be everything to everyone (Katz’s serves cheesesteaks, burgers, and breakfasts), despite the fact that they don’t necessarily make more than a few exceptional items. The reason I love the minimalist places like Schwartz’s, which serves basically one or two things, and does those perfectly, is because they don’t pander or cater to everyone. That idea that the customer is always right, and if they want something else, than by god get it for them, is at the heart of so much restaurant mediocrity. But the realities of running a business, especially in New York, mean that sacrifices need to be made. If a less than stellar tuna sandwich or chopped liver is needed to keep the place alive, than sometimes you just have to swallow that bland liver and move on. I wish it weren’t so, but sometimes it is.

I don’t disagree with Richman’s taste assessment. He said what he tasted, and I was there and tasted it with him. But I won’t pass judgment on Katz’s too harshly. It remains the Alpha-Deli in the world, and the pastrami, ambiance, and scent is still the top of the pile. The rest? Let’s just say that going in there and ordering a bagel and lox is the equivalent of going to McDonalds and getting a salad. It’s for schmucks. Go to Katz’s, get the pastrami, and enjoy it. It is the soul of that place, and while nothing can be perfect, the pastrami is pretty damn close.

11 Responses to “Richman ain’t pleased with Katz’s”

  1. ian finkel Says:

    Mr Richman, is so correct. The place is also dirty, and you have to slip the guys at the counter a few bucks to get a really good pastrami sandwich. Yes the pastrami is excellent but the rest of the stuff is crap.

  2. Joan Ginsberg Says:

    I’ll start off by saying that everything I know about deli I learned from my husband, Sy. But anyone in the know can tell you that he is extraordinarily knowledgeable about deli. Right, David?

    He always claimed that a deli, *by definition*, had lots of offerings and menu items. He taught me that it is one of the things that makes a deli, well . . . a deli. It is one of the reasons that it is so hard to create and sustain a deli. So to claim that people have no right to expect Katz’s to serve anything but good pastrami tends to fly in the face of that idea.

    If Katz’s can’t be expected to have anything other than one great item like pastrami, perhaps they should stop being a deli and start being a pastrami sandwich shop.

    Around Detroit, there are a few ham shops that do just that - sell gut-busting ham sandwiches and maybe ham-bean soup. That’s it. (I know this because I am not Jewish and can eat there without shielding my face.)

    But Mr. Richman is right to criticize, and you are off the mark, David, to expect him not to. Either that, or you need to define what a “deli” is at the outset.

  3. David W. Cowles Says:

    I know only one deli where I’ve never had a bad meal, regardless of what I ordered: Nate’n'Al, in Beverly Hills. (Junior’s in Westwood CA is a close second.)

    You’re absolutely right. All too many delis have a few outstanding items (specialties of the house), some mediocre dishes, and the rest is drek.

  4. Faith Wheeler Says:

    So now that he’s torn this one up, where would he recommend? It’s easy to criticize but what about the alternatives? I am living in NYC for the month of July, and I sure would like to know which the best deli is..

  5. Manny Says:

    When I ate at Katz’s regularly in the sixties (probably risking my naive teenaged life to go there), they probably had more good food available than they do now. Still, what did I ever eat there?

    Pastrami, knoblewurst, hotdogs, and fries.
    The fries were great then, purportedly containing some schmaltz in the oil. I’ve heard that they aren’t so good now.

    Sometimes I got fancy and had the pastrami on club. The boiled specials weren’t better than at any other deli.

    Did I ever consider having anything else there? I can’t remember for sure, but I doubt it.

    And I don’t know why anyone would eat a Gabila’s knish (the square, tasteless mashed heartburn encased in deep fried cardboard) anywhere.

    So what’s new, nu?

  6. Harvey Weinshenker Says:

    Gabila’s knishes are GREAT!!! As far as pastrami sandwiches go, whether at Katz’s or anywhere else, please give me a good, good, good, corned beef sandwich on rye, or a great chopped liver sandwich on rye; much better and healthier than pastrami.

  7. Ziggy Says:

    David, personaly I never thought of Katzs as a great deli there are only two things to eat there pastrami and franks the rest, well lets not go there.

  8. Eric Katz Says:

    I still really think the name of the Deli is what gets people really excited.

  9. extramsg Says:

    I’ve been saying this same thing for years. Katz’s has some of the best pastrami you can get anywhere on the planet and they’ve got people who know how to cut it. And their salami is terrific as well. But beyond that it’s a crap-shoot. Some things can be downright awful. (I actually think they have pretty good pickles compared to other delis in NY, too.)

    As someone who runs a deli, I know it’s hard to make sure everything is always good, but it’s not that hard to make sure everything is decent and a lot of stuff is good. It just takes care. Katz’s is a huge place, though, and you might be surprised how careful a place of that size has to be with their costs. Ideally, I think a restaurant, but especially a deli that has to work on tight margins would have to be no more than 30-50 seats to really maintain good to great quality on all items. And you’d have to have someone in charge who not only knows what good is and how to make it, but cares that the food that goes out on the plate is such.

    I think that was what Ken and I did when we started out with Kenny & Zuke’s. And I think we mostly succeed in that regard still, despite not being able to see every plate that goes out. But serving 5000 people a week means we screw up now and then. 1 in a 100 bad meals would still be 50 disappointed customers. I can’t imagine what serving the numbers Katz’s does would be like.

    About Richman, I’ll only say that he seems to know deli a lot better than pizza. He’s right on the mark with Katz’s.

  10. IP Says:

    I dunno. It could be due to the fact that I grew up on Schwartz’s but I find Katz’s to be very overrated. I’ve had the corned beef which is not all that edible, the pastrami which I find always tough and never tender and the brisket which is most edible IMO but always too dry. Schwartz’s by comparison melts in your mouth.

    I am a sucker, though. Every time my wife and I go to NYC (living in DC, it’s at least a couple times/year), I still drag her there, hoping it’ll be different. She adores Schwartz’s but at Katz’s she removes 90% of the meat in the sandwich and leaves just a couple of slices so that it can be bitten and chewed without getting a cramp in her masseters.

    In all honesty, I’ve reached the end with Katz’s. Feh.

  11. Morningside Ralph Says:

    Alan Richman has been,is, and will continue to be the biggest and most insensitive idiot on the planet. He probably had nothing nice to say about his mother’s cooking.

    Yes, Katz’s is probably nothing like it was in 1953, but neither is anything else. Better to have the deli before us rather than a tribute website.

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